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American Immigration
American Immigration Attitudes Finster 07/14/04
Racial aspect Chicagobear 07/14/04
Cultural Aspect Finster 07/14/04
Linguistic Fragmentation??? Vangel Vesovski 07/18/04
Well Taken Finster 07/22/04
Again we have different views. From what I have been readin... Vangel Vesovski 07/22/04
Different Views Finster 07/23/04
Cultural Aspect Eddie 07/14/04
assimilation feelingolder 07/14/04
Assimilation Finster 07/15/04
I agree and disagree Dan Browne 08/05/04
Immigration & The Rich ! The Reaper ! 07/14/04
Politicians Finster 07/15/04
National interest verses elite interest Dan Osborne 07/15/04
Sure I'm repeating myself yet again . . . James Hyland 07/15/04
Immigrants vs settlers Bud Wood 07/16/04
James, sorry Dan Browne 08/05/04
Jet Travel, Telecommunication, and Assimilation. Eleuthero 07/15/04
Sharing The Economic Pie Finster 07/15/04
"If people want better economic opportunity, they should dev... Mark Grant 07/15/04
Turn to 'Crime' James Hyland 07/15/04
Finster & Da Pie The Reaper ! 07/15/04
Reaper & Getting It Right! Finster 07/15/04
I couldn't agree more!! Eleuthero 07/16/04
Señor Eleuthero....last time I checked with my brother C... Commandanté Pachuco 07/15/04
Buddy... please be honest. Tell us your story. If I were a b... Some dude 07/15/04
It's a white ivy league sort of humor. Si...hahaha... Commandanté Pachuco 07/18/04
Me, a "blue blood"??? Boy are you a live one. Eleuthero 07/16/04
So I made a slip by including Russians as 'non-whiteys'. ... Commandanté Pachuco 07/18/04
Assimiliation James Hyland 07/15/04
Oh, don't worry James. I won't make that mistake. Eleuthero 07/19/04
What Would They Think Finster 07/19/04
Imigrants late and early Lucius Foster 07/15/04
Never Cease? Finster 07/16/04
Lucius feelingolder 07/16/04
Answer Feelingolder Lucius Foster 07/25/04
Spanglish feelingolder 08/09/04
lazy professionals Ronald Swaren 08/10/04
Make Dan Browne 08/05/04
America in a nosedive Ronald Swaren 07/15/04
Rome Finster 07/15/04
Ted Kennedy is one of the culprits constantly pushing for mo... kodiak 07/15/04
quote history but dig into it a bit. Lucius Foster 07/15/04
quote history but dig into it a bit. Lucius Foster 07/15/04
Le Petomane James Hyland 07/16/04
flatulence indicator of decadence moves into the red..... Norville 08/05/04
Barbarian Future James Hyland 07/16/04
And furthermore Ronald Swaren 07/16/04
Black and White Markets Anonymous 07/17/04
necessity of black market? Ronald Swaren 07/19/04
toleration feelingolder 07/16/04
Lead Poisoning The Devil's Gift 07/17/04
... dud 07/17/04
Hedonism Finster 07/17/04
Morality And Prosperity Finster 07/18/04
other side of the coin feelingolder 07/18/04
Other Side Of The Coin Finster 07/18/04
Consider this: Unanswered questions are always less danger... William C. Hampton 07/18/04
Relativity feelingolder 07/18/04
Morality And Prosperity Finster 08/09/04
Gringos...it is all over for you. You have lost your Freedo... Commandanté Pachuco 07/18/04
immigration/mexicans barbara patton 07/20/04

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Date: July 14, 2004 09:07 PM
Author: Finster
Subject: American Immigration Attitudes

In today's Daily Reckoning:

    Americans have a strange attitude towards immigrants. They are all descendants of immigrants themselves...and depend on new ones to fund their retirement programs and buy their houses at inflated prices. Still, they often resent the newcomers.

This attitude is not so strange. Yes, Americans are all descendants of immigrants. But Americans are hardly unique in this respect. After all, all humans are believed to have originated somewhere in Africa, the Middle East or Mediterranean region. Every other land on Earth is filled with the descendants of immigrants.

When America invited in the world's "hungry, tired and poor", it was an underpopulated expanse of land, filled with far more open space and natural resources than the contemporary inhabitants could possibly make good use of. That is no longer true. Today's Americans drive on crowded roads and highways, cannot provide their own energy needs, and suffer ever increasing regulation from attempts to preserve what clean air, water and open spaces are left. Liberty is gradually being eroded as increasing proximity to others prompts increasing regimentation and government-enforced socialization.

Americans do not need mass immigrations to sustain retirements. Their retirement programs were created at a time when they did not live nearly as long as they do now, but very little adjustment has been made for this change. Retirement programs could remain quite sustainable if the age of eligibility were adjusted in proportion to longer life spans. Arguments that immigration is necessary to sustain them are thinly veiled cover for the politicians to sell out to special interest and disregard the will of the people. Those that make those arguments never discuss what happens when the current crop of immigrants themselves are old - but it is clear that American would merely be incurring yet another form of unsustainable increase in debt, merely deferring real solutions to be the burden of the next generation.

If American were losing population, increased immigration could be justified. But it's not, and it can't.

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164693)


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Date: July 14, 2004 09:44 PM
Author: Chicagobear
Subject: Racial aspect

I think the racial aspect needs to be put on the table. Prior to 1965, the vast majority of immigrants were white Europeans who assimilated quickly into the existing American population without changing it. Recent immigrants have been overwhelmingly non-white (Oriental, East Indian, Latin American mestizos and mulattos) and are changing the complexion of America. Whites feel threatened by their loss of power, especially in places like California, and are voting with their feet to places where whites are still a great majority. I think that hostility to immigrants will increase as whites' relative position continues to decline.

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164707)







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Date: July 14, 2004 10:37 PM
Author: Eddie
Subject: Cultural Aspect

You are right about the cultural aspect Finster. These immigrants don't want to be Americans. They don't want to learn English. I think they would be welcomed if the numbers were more controlled and sustainable. They would also be welcomed if they loved this country and wanted to assimilate like our ancestors did.

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164715)





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Date: July 14, 2004 11:11 PM
Author: The Reaper !
Subject: Immigration & The Rich !

Funny thing about all of this immigration , the rich have been petitioning congress to let more and more of them in . This year another million plus legal immigrants will enter this country , in spite of the fact that we are presently , according to the government , 10,000,000 jobs short of employing the people that are all ready here . IMHO the real figure is well over 20,000,000 , but hey ! what's in a number ? All that matters , at least to those rich petitioners , is that them immigrants keep coming and those wages keep falling ! Let's see , we kicked most of the people off of welfare and then told them to take all those low paying jobs . Then just when they got used to getting up in the morning and going to work , we sent all those jobs to Mexico . Then when the Mexicans got used to working for $100 a week , we sent those same jobs to China . Then we sent all the computer related jobs to India . Got any thoughts on who runs the U.S. ? Oh those fickle rich ! The Reaper !

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164729)



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Date: July 15, 2004 12:03 AM
Author: Dan Osborne
Subject: National interest verses elite interest

A simple and dramatic lesson was and is the use of slave labor to boot start the USA. The use of slave labor made it possible to have big plantations and vast wealth for a few white "elites". Of course they knew it was wrong. If insted they used non slave labor the economic growth and wealth growth would have been slower but today we would have been much better off. One thing I notice about many people they don't plan ahead, the christan religion is almost built for this as the coming end times seems to be just around the corner, all the time.. I point out to the few christans I know that this is not new, this social economic situation. The Roman empire is a example. We are just going back in time before the new deal in social political terms. "Back to the old days" I am not tied into the think tanks but they must have done research and crunched the numbers and decided we need more and more people. Just like we need more and more money and more and more economic growth. Never mind history is full of ancient societies that rose up and overconsumed their enviroment and callapsed to a dust bowl.

The secret services of the world must know that all is geared toward the elite's interest, all things twisted this way. I mean in terms of thinking and reasoning of their lackies. A few leftys or true centralists are a small voice against this.

I am guessing the elites have decided in the very long term they will turn the USA to a south american type of country. It will be unpleasent and there will be movements in time to break away into smaller countries. I do think though there are too many people too stupid to wake up the danger and we will just slowly desolve to a shit hole. In time whites will be looking to get out of the USA or make a new country. A very fertle ground for fascism with these dynamics. A intelligent management would try to keep a population at around 90% homogenious for stablity of government ie republic, even alternative democracy designs. I do realise though this current generation of kids are physically lazy. Part of the problem is that they simply know too much, they can't see themselves working for peanuts while someone else is a billionare.

As hard as it is, population demographics must have some form of central planning, if you want stablity in government, society.

Personally, my vision is this for the futuure. A stable population for the USA or country X. In other words a fixed population number, I say around 250 million in the USA. A more democratic process in government. A better stable currency, focus on the design of it's control. My vision tends to lean toward a idealistic european country, farms, small factories, no huge cities. Some socialistic programs but as the people want, by choice of the vote.

The alternative, is over expansion, over consumption, over population, more and more growth in all things. Until the big belly up!!

Understand, nothing can beat a pure capitalism for production and profits, but now as always in history it cannot be sustained. The whole social economic governmental design is bent on self destruction. You can't beat pure capitalism at it's own game no matter how you go about it, it is a dead end, literly.

As a practical matter if a country or two etc, went to a better social economic model and if it worked then this would go a long way to stablise the world. It won't be a quick fix but in the coming 100 years and onward it may help save the human race from self destruction. It should would beat twiddling the thumbs and just letting things take care of themselves.

If a elite or elites etc could slip a few bucks my way, I would do some traveling and try to see if anything that I could do. That is the best I can try.

Dan

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164749)


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Date: July 15, 2004 01:14 AM
Author: James Hyland
Subject: Sure I'm repeating myself yet again . . .

. . . but sometimes you can't improve on what has been said in the past:

" . . . the northern European, and particularly Anglo Saxons made this country. Oh yes, the others helped. But that is the full statement of the case. They came to this country because it was already made as an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth. They added to it, they often enriched it, but they did not make it . . ."

This was a simple statement of fact in 1924, and despite 39 years of immigration idiocy since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act, it remains as true today as it was 80 years ago. Remodelling ethnic America is at best a dangerous experiment.

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164755)




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Date: July 15, 2004 06:40 AM
Author: Eleuthero
Subject: Jet Travel, Telecommunication, and Assimilation.

When immigrants came to America in 1950 and before, jet travel for common people did not exist. This more or less forced people to fully assimilate to the Anglo-Saxon culture because a return trip to their homeland would be as perilous and uncertain as the trip here.

Now, with jet travel, lots of Indians and Asians live in America but always have their big toe still in their homeland -- where they can talk to their kin still living there daily due to the ease of international telecommunication.

I teach classes which are 80% foreign -- a mix of Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Russians. Alas, I see only balkanization and virtually no desire to assimilate except to buy all the goodies that Honkies want like expensive cars, cellphones, computers, and big screen TVs.

Perhaps the second generation USED TO BE the generation when the real assimilation occurred but I suspect you could see the inklings of adjustment in the first generation. I see no "inklings".

I see immigrants coming here to "sweep the gold off the streets" and while I decry the consummate materialism of many of my yuppie peers, the foreigners appear to have virtually no other motivations for being here. The Nasdaq Bubble brought 'em here and I would just as soon see about 75% of them go back.

In the SF Bay Area, you often see packs of Anglos with a few people from other cultures mixed in. The packs of Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese, and even Russians are "pure" and seldom, if ever, have a token "whitey". You here them going to and fro up and down the streets speaking their native tongue. It's like living in the United Nations.

Not only is there little cultural mixing but many of these cultures, especially the Indians and Chinese, bring their poor sanitation habits with them as well. Ask people in City Halls about restaurants which routinely violate local health ordinances.

I don't mind sharing a piece of the economic pie with any decent folk. However, I wouldn't go to their country to form a semi-hostile enclave and I sure as hell don't like them doing it here.

E.

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164787)























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Date: July 15, 2004 01:39 PM
Author: Ronald Swaren
Subject: America in a nosedive

Tolerating excessive and illegal immigration is a certain sign that our society has failed. This is exactly what happened with Rome. I can speak from decades of experience with both the educated elites and the blue collar class. The blue collars don't want any moral advice which interferes with their 'freedom': i.e. the freedom to drink and smoke and otherwise pollute themselves to death and to grub for money to support themselves and their broods.. If they are in trouble their solution is to hog the jobs and push good people out of the way__i.e. getting more money will cure everything. The softie,over-educated elites ("highly educated idiots")accomplish very little towards the betterment of society; they just want to preserve, by enacting appropriate laws and policies, their privileged positions. Combined, these two socio-economic groups would have tanked this country long ago, but they have found a way out by allowing in low paid workers who actually do something and thus keep the industrial wheels turning. This however is changing the whole face of American culture (other countries have wised up long before we have)and good people, however diminished as a percentage of the population, are once again picking up the tab in the form of social services. "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of -money- grubbing opportunists- liberty"

(http://65.88.90.51/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=3&Message_ID=164933)